Comments on: Why the percentage of Hindus in Indian population, might decline in the coming years? http://www.diary.viveksanghi.com/2006/12/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/ A weblog of Vivek's views, observations, book reviews and some brain fart :) Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:42:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Sujan Dhar http://www.diary.viveksanghi.com/2006/12/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/comment-page-1/#comment-197 Sujan Dhar Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:23:57 +0000 http://stubbornfanatic.wordpress.com/2006/12/16/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/#comment-197 A very well thought out post!.. The issue of dowry bothers me a lot too... Especially when I see educated friends of mine succumbing to parental pressure. A very well thought out post!.. The issue of dowry bothers me a lot too… Especially when I see educated friends of mine succumbing to parental pressure.

]]> By: thesosbrog http://www.diary.viveksanghi.com/2006/12/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/comment-page-1/#comment-148 thesosbrog Wed, 06 Aug 2008 05:25:46 +0000 http://stubbornfanatic.wordpress.com/2006/12/16/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/#comment-148 Nice article...and a bit nit-picky from the commenter in front of me. In the global sense, Hinduism is definitely a religion. Nice article…and a bit nit-picky from the commenter in front of me. In the global sense, Hinduism is definitely a religion.

]]> By: Anup Nair http://www.diary.viveksanghi.com/2006/12/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/comment-page-1/#comment-139 Anup Nair Sun, 08 Jul 2007 21:28:44 +0000 http://stubbornfanatic.wordpress.com/2006/12/16/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/#comment-139 Hi vivek, went through your article, would like to add a few points from my side. 1. Hinduism is not a religion. As defined in vedas " Its a "sanskar"-a way of living life. Also if you have noted since ancient time we donot have anyone as such preaching hinduism, we did have likes of Ram, Kirshna but they were all there to aspire a way of ideal living. 2. Reading the article what i felt was a more greater influence of northern Indian beliefs. I think you should have a look at the way the south Indian villages are conducted, maybe that may help you in giving a better insight as to "Why Hinduism cannot decline" But i do appreciate the point u tried to bring. Hi vivek,
went through your article, would like to add a few points from my side.
1. Hinduism is not a religion. As defined in vedas ” Its a “sanskar”-a way of living life. Also if you have noted since ancient time we donot have anyone as such preaching hinduism, we did have likes of Ram, Kirshna but they were all there to aspire a way of ideal living.
2. Reading the article what i felt was a more greater influence of northern Indian beliefs. I think you should have a look at the way the south Indian villages are conducted, maybe that may help you in giving a better insight as to “Why Hinduism cannot decline” But i do appreciate the point u tried to bring.

]]> By: stubbfanatic http://www.diary.viveksanghi.com/2006/12/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/comment-page-1/#comment-146 stubbfanatic Sat, 03 Feb 2007 20:29:42 +0000 http://stubbornfanatic.wordpress.com/2006/12/16/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/#comment-146 Hello Irshad. Welcome to my blog. Your thought process is indeed logical. And after much thinking as well as some discussion, I have come to the conclusion that polygamy will not accelerate population growth provided that the sex ratio is in favor of males i.e. more number of males than females. Your point is well taken and I will updated this article after some time. Hello Irshad. Welcome to my blog. Your thought process is indeed logical. And after much thinking as well as some discussion, I have come to the conclusion that polygamy will not accelerate population growth provided that the sex ratio is in favor of males i.e. more number of males than females. Your point is well taken and I will updated this article after some time.

]]> By: Irshad http://www.diary.viveksanghi.com/2006/12/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/comment-page-1/#comment-147 Irshad Sat, 03 Feb 2007 19:02:59 +0000 http://stubbornfanatic.wordpress.com/2006/12/16/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/#comment-147 your assumption "polygamy will continue to fuel their population" is incorrect. Think over it: it is the womb that is responsible for populating. Whether there is polygamy or polyandry, the number of wombs being impregnated will remain same, more so when famale population is less than male. Correct me if my logic is not 'logical'! your assumption “polygamy will continue to fuel their population” is incorrect. Think over it: it is the womb that is responsible for populating. Whether there is polygamy or polyandry, the number of wombs being impregnated will remain same, more so when famale population is less than male. Correct me if my logic is not ‘logical’!

]]> By: stubbfanatic http://www.diary.viveksanghi.com/2006/12/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/comment-page-1/#comment-145 stubbfanatic Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:17:32 +0000 http://stubbornfanatic.wordpress.com/2006/12/16/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/#comment-145 It's good to learn that evils like forced dowry, female infanticide are not very old concepts. I had tacitly assumed that it had existed in the Hindu community from a long time. "I think Hindus are not as bad as the Indian secular, progressive media and intellectuals would have us believe." That's a fair point. Actually it appears that the Media likes to make the Hindu hardliners the butt of ridicule while other are let off. However, religious hardliners and fundamentalists whether Hindu, Muslim or anyone else are very bad for a society. They create violence in name of religion and destroy the peace in lives of the common people. Vivek It’s good to learn that evils like forced dowry, female infanticide are not very old concepts. I had tacitly assumed that it had existed in the Hindu community from a long time.

“I think Hindus are not as bad as the Indian secular, progressive media and intellectuals would have us believe.”

That’s a fair point. Actually it appears that the Media likes to make the Hindu hardliners the butt of ridicule while other are let off. However, religious hardliners and fundamentalists whether Hindu, Muslim or anyone else are very bad for a society. They create violence in name of religion and destroy the peace in lives of the common people.

Vivek

]]> By: Apollo http://www.diary.viveksanghi.com/2006/12/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/comment-page-1/#comment-143 Apollo Mon, 18 Dec 2006 02:17:04 +0000 http://stubbornfanatic.wordpress.com/2006/12/16/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/#comment-143 yes, economic progress is the key. we accumulated all these social evils in the past 1000 years when the country was being overrun by one invader after another and much progress and innovation had come to a standstill. According to some scholar the dowry system had its beginnings when the British started their "land reforms". The Men then began to actually "own" the land and the women lost their traditional roles and thus their economic standing in society. They since then became more and more dependent on the male members of their family from cradle to grave. Once they regain their economic standing to some level i think problems like dowry, female infanticide etc... will slowly begin to disappear. Also i think Hindus are not as bad as the Indian secular, progressive media and intellectuals would have us believe. Infact i would go as far as to say that we have remained a democracy in a area surrounded by dictatorships because of our civilisational heritage going back to the 6th century BC when a large number of Indian states were actually republics compared to mesopotamia or China of the same period who were autocracies even then. yes, economic progress is the key. we accumulated all these social evils in the past 1000 years when the country was being overrun by one invader after another and much progress and innovation had come to a standstill.

According to some scholar the dowry system had its beginnings when the British started their “land reforms”. The Men then began to actually “own” the land and the women lost their traditional roles and thus their economic standing in society. They since then became more and more dependent on the male members of their family from cradle to grave.

Once they regain their economic standing to some level i think problems like dowry, female infanticide etc… will slowly begin to disappear.

Also i think Hindus are not as bad as the Indian secular, progressive media and intellectuals would have us believe. Infact i would go as far as to say that we have remained a democracy in a area surrounded by dictatorships because of our civilisational heritage going back to the 6th century BC when a large number of Indian states were actually republics compared to mesopotamia or China of the same period who were autocracies even then.

]]> By: stubbfanatic http://www.diary.viveksanghi.com/2006/12/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/comment-page-1/#comment-144 stubbfanatic Sun, 17 Dec 2006 18:53:34 +0000 http://stubbornfanatic.wordpress.com/2006/12/16/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/#comment-144 "After all everything among human beings comes down to self interest. Moral arguments never really have much impact." That's a fair point that you have raised. But I am slightly confused here. First I would like to state that I am actually not interested in raising or maintaining the Hindu majority in India nor am I afraid of the inevitable slump that we both can foresee. I truly want to root out these evils from the Hindu society by highlighting their socio-economic impact on the country. As an indirect consequence, the slump in the Hindu percentage may not be that bad. With reference to the method you suggested to check the social evils, I like it and though it may seem insurmountable to undertake such an operation in a large country like India, it must be done. However, I foresee a dire consequence of this. As all the industries that provide jobs in bulk set themselves in and around major cities and towns, all our population might be motivated to pull out of villages and go to cities so that their girl gets a chance to earn and support them. If this campaign is really successful it will reduce the number of people involved in agriculture (one of the few labour-intensive works in India) in the long run. I say why not convert these villages into cities. Bring them facilities where they are. Make farming more profitable. Make farmers independent of Monsoon by providing artificial irrigation facilities to them. Link the rivers and make villages a safer place to live. So you see it is all taking a bigger picture and starting to encompass every thing. People want the money first and then they might consider investing on a girl child. The girl child may not be able to support her parents and take advantage of the industrialization if her parents don't send her to a good school etc which requires two things: 1. Presence of a good school in or around their village 2. Enough money with the parents to meet their food requirements and also afford education for their child. Infact, tell you what: Once the rural people have good money and raised standards of living the killing will automatically stop. I don't want to explain how? By now you should be able to catch my drift :) “After all everything among human beings comes down to self interest. Moral arguments never really have much impact.”

That’s a fair point that you have raised. But I am slightly confused here. First I would like to state that I am actually not interested in raising or maintaining the Hindu majority in India nor am I afraid of the inevitable slump that we both can foresee. I truly want to root out these evils from the Hindu society by highlighting their socio-economic impact on the country. As an indirect consequence, the slump in the Hindu percentage may not be that bad.

With reference to the method you suggested to check the social evils, I like it and though it may seem insurmountable to undertake such an operation in a large country like India, it must be done. However, I foresee a dire consequence of this. As all the industries that provide jobs in bulk set themselves in and around major cities and towns, all our population might be motivated to pull out of villages and go to cities so that their girl gets a chance to earn and support them. If this campaign is really successful it will reduce the number of people involved in agriculture (one of the few labour-intensive works in India) in the long run.

I say why not convert these villages into cities. Bring them facilities where they are. Make farming more profitable. Make farmers independent of Monsoon by providing artificial irrigation facilities to them. Link the rivers and make villages a safer place to live. So you see it is all taking a bigger picture and starting to encompass every thing.

People want the money first and then they might consider investing on a girl child. The girl child may not be able to support her parents and take advantage of the industrialization if her parents don’t send her to a good school etc which requires two things:

1. Presence of a good school in or around their village
2. Enough money with the parents to meet their food requirements and also afford education for their child.

Infact, tell you what: Once the rural people have good money and raised standards of living the killing will automatically stop. I don’t want to explain how? By now you should be able to catch my drift :)

]]> By: Apollo http://www.diary.viveksanghi.com/2006/12/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/comment-page-1/#comment-142 Apollo Sun, 17 Dec 2006 04:49:17 +0000 http://stubbornfanatic.wordpress.com/2006/12/16/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/#comment-142 Vivek, that's some good points. Career oriented women might prefer to marry late and since much of the killing happens in Rural areas the trend of modernisation might reach there too late to have an impact on the situation. All this would definitely mean a slump in the population growth rates of Hindus. The problem could be tackled in another way. By means of a mass campaign involving grassroots workers and mass media aimed at the general population saying that the Girl child will no longer be a economic burden on the family due to increasing modernisation.that they will be able to look after themselves and perhaps even support their parents during their old age. That might just help reverse the trend. After all everything among human beings comes down to self interest. Moral arguments never really have much impact. Vivek, that’s some good points. Career oriented women might prefer to marry late and since much of the killing happens in Rural areas the trend of modernisation might reach there too late to have an impact on the situation. All this would definitely mean a slump in the population growth rates of Hindus.

The problem could be tackled in another way. By means of a mass campaign involving grassroots workers and mass media aimed at the general population saying that the Girl child will no longer be a economic burden on the family due to increasing modernisation.that they will be able to look after themselves and perhaps even support their parents during their old age. That might just help reverse the trend.

After all everything among human beings comes down to self interest. Moral arguments never really have much impact.

]]> By: stubbfanatic http://www.diary.viveksanghi.com/2006/12/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/comment-page-1/#comment-141 stubbfanatic Sat, 16 Dec 2006 20:31:18 +0000 http://stubbornfanatic.wordpress.com/2006/12/16/why-the-percentage-of-hindus-in-indian-population-might-decline-in-the-coming-years/#comment-141 Hello Apollo. Thanks for reading my article(s). - I completely overlooked the point regarding more women entering the workforce. It's true but I am not sure about how good an impact it can have on the trend. Well I will need to pull up the data regarding this and see which rate is higher. - You have mentioned the term "long run". It is possible that it may take so long that it will be too late. Already the situation is pathetic and as mentioned in my article, even if everybody stops killing the girl child now, it will (on a non-conservative estimate) take a couple of decades before the ratio reaches the point where it looks good. - Currently most of the industrialization (that creates jobs in bulk) is taking place (or has taken place) in the South (like I.T. companies, auto-plants etc). Probably that is a contributing factor for better sex ratios here but I am not sure if it has single-handedly improved the sex-ratios. See the child sex ratios for states like Andhra, Maharashtra and karnataka for 1991 and 2001. It is actually gone down inspite of the industrialization. But I am not trying to dismiss your point. It would be very interesting to look at the child sex ratios for the same states now or a couple of years later to see how this industrialization is affecting the trend. - I guess the concept of women entering the workforce is hardly affecting the trend in rural and remote areas (which still form major chunks of our population). What do you think? - With the thought of more and more Hindu women entering the workforce some questions comes to my mind: 1. If more Hindu women are becoming career oriented and if this is raising the average age at which they get married and also the average age at which they decide to have a child, then it will impact the Hindu share of population negatively. 2. Career orientation also leads to the trend to being Single (Some thing so widely observed in America). Which community is getting more affected by this trend. If a large number of such people are Hindus even if a portion of it are females then this will negatively affect the Hindu share of population. What do you think? Regards, Vivek Hello Apollo. Thanks for reading my article(s).

- I completely overlooked the point regarding more women entering the workforce. It’s true but I am not sure about how good an impact it can have on the trend. Well I will need to pull up the data regarding this and see which rate is higher.

- You have mentioned the term “long run”. It is possible that it may take so long that it will be too late. Already the situation is pathetic and as mentioned in my article, even if everybody stops killing the girl child now, it will (on a non-conservative estimate) take a couple of decades before the ratio reaches the point where it looks good.

- Currently most of the industrialization (that creates jobs in bulk) is taking place (or has taken place) in the South (like I.T. companies, auto-plants etc). Probably that is a contributing factor for better sex ratios here but I am not sure if it has single-handedly improved the sex-ratios. See the child sex ratios for states like Andhra, Maharashtra and karnataka for 1991 and 2001. It is actually gone down inspite of the industrialization. But I am not trying to dismiss your point. It would be very interesting to look at the child sex ratios for the same states now or a couple of years later to see how this industrialization is affecting the trend.

- I guess the concept of women entering the workforce is hardly affecting the trend in rural and remote areas (which still form major chunks of our population). What do you think?

- With the thought of more and more Hindu women entering the workforce some questions comes to my mind:
1. If more Hindu women are becoming career oriented and if this is raising the average age at which they get married and also the average age at which they decide to have a child, then it will impact the Hindu share of population negatively.
2. Career orientation also leads to the trend to being Single (Some thing so widely observed in America). Which community is getting more affected by this trend. If a large number of such people are Hindus even if a portion of it are females then this will negatively affect the Hindu share of population. What do you think?

Regards,

Vivek

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